BrandonCowan
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Deciding whether you need an app for your business is a big step. They’re not cheap and you have to be sure that what you create will really be of benefit before you venture down this path. And then you have to decide just what to make the app about.

How do you decide which type of app to have built, what aspect of your business is suitable for app development and who do you talk to about it. We know apps are big and we know mobile marketing can no longer be ignored, but it’s also not something you want to just do for the sake of it. It does require some knowledge and preparation before you part with your hard earned dollars.

Today I am chatting with Brandon Cowan, a young Australian entrepreneur whose passion for apps opened a new business opportunity for him. Brandon Cowan started Crazy Dog Apps in November 2010 to follow his dreams and turn his own app ideas into reality. Since then he’s made apps for businesses and individuals.

He works with a talented team of highly skilled developers and designers and has created over 20 apps for clients ranging from the most visited charity website in Australia to individuals with app ideas.

He develops native apps for iOS and Android and has 4 top-100 apps.

Transcript

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Victoria:               Hi Brandon, thanks so much for being my guest today.

Brandon:             Good to be here.

Victoria:               I thought we just talk a little about apps in general first. Because I think one of the biggest dilemmas a lot of companies find and certainly in my experience working with companies with digital marketing and consulting, firstly they don’t actually know how to go about getting an app. But first and foremost before that, do they really need one? What part of their business can be turned into an app given that there are so many different types of apps out there. What would you advise somebody if they came to you first,

A) thinking that they might go down this track and;

B) how to ascertain exactly what part of their business could be turned into an app.

Brandon:             Yeah, I think probably the first thing to do is to try and work out basically an inefficiency in your business or something that can be improved by basically just simply making it up. Now some examples of that is one of my clients, they basically, for various different pilots. At the moment before I made the app for them. The pilots had to fill out all these like massive forms and booklets and everything to basically like recall their trips, if they felt tired, like with the feedback and the meals on the planes, like all these stuff and they’re like really really long forms.

But basically what they do is they came to and say, “Hey, can we turn these massive forms into an app?” I’m finding like a lot of my clients, a lot of my business clients they actually change their old like paper based methods into a simple app where their employees can basically use it internally to basically complete task and even like a message, they would like message other employees, like message the bosses, if they got any issues, I guess that’s one way a business can take advantage of making an app.

Victoria:               Sorry, no that’s all right. So basically that’s like a management, isn’t it? It’s like a reporting under management system.

Brandon:             Exactly.

Victoria:               Okay, yeah, very good idea. Okay, I read a little bit recently. Actually I was looking at some statistics online. Its quite interesting how the app market has grown dramatically over the last — well since about 2010 I guess we’ve had apps before that but they really have come on in a very big way and more companies starting to look at them as part of their business. Interestingly I have a number of clients who have been approached by app development companies and offered to turn their entire website into an app. What are your thoughts on that and what would you advise a company who has been offered that type of service?

Brandon:             I’d be weary like. That being said, I’m actually pretty weary of most app companies. The reason like putting a website into an app, half the time I think it’s simply irrelevant; there is no point in doing that. Like people go to your website because they want information about you. In general they would have Googled it. But if they wanted information about a company, chances are they’re probably not going to – I don’t know, I think it’s a bit pointless in most…not all cases. But for most businesses it’s sort of just pointless to put your website into an app, because an app should accomplish a task.

If it had for example a feature that basically compliments your business and adds value to the person, to whatever he builds that app, then yeah definitely it’s a good idea. But simply to put a website into an app to store information about your website or whatever it’s not that useful and it would be a bit of waste of money in my opinion.

Victoria:               I would have to agree with that and in fact I’m glad you said that because it’s pretty much what I advise my clients as well.

Brandon:             Yeah.

Victoria:               Especially if you’ve built a responsive site anyway because automatically it is available on your iPhone or iPad or Android or whatever it is, whatever mobile device you’ve got. And it’s going to fit and be available in that form. So let’s go back again then to some of the other things. I was doing a little bit of reading as I said and some of the different things that people do create apps around, tends to be entertainment obviously particularly games and things like that, perhaps educate at the same time which is a way to get your message across to people in an interesting way.

They also use it to inform people of information. I guess that’s probably a great idea if you’ve got continual messages going out about certain things which is kind of the reverse of what you said, where the client would probably push those messages out. And obviously there is that whole connection which is where the social media comes in and anything that’s social media orientated; if you’ve got that type of business that encourages engagement and encourages that communication, then an app is a perfect medium for you.

Brandon:             Yeah, exactly. 26% of apps are only opened once.

Victoria:               Is that right? Really?

Brandon:             Yeah, yeah. So we did consider basically as a person whose getting app made, they consider what sort of lasting entertainment would I be putting into an app. That does come down to pretty much what you say like pushing out; use two people to download your app. So that sort of thing is a good way to make people open your app more than once.

Victoria:               Yes exactly. Yeah I guess when I look at some of those statistics, it was interesting given the type of information or the type of app it is, will determine whether or not people go to the web for that information or whether they go to the app. And interestingly shopping browsers were bigger than apps, search so were browses bigger than apps and entertainment although they were starting to even out. But when you get to that manage or reporting system, then that’s when the app starts to increase and go above browsers and the same with information, navigation and that connection which is obviously the engagement process, where they really start to surpass the web. The web you have to have obviously but the apps are the key. So it’s really interesting to look at those particular features of your business and see what is going to be better for you.

Brandon:             Yeah definitely. Just on that note, like a lot of people they think, “Well why do I need an app? I’ve already got like a mobile optimized website. But there are some specific features that are only available in apps. Now some examples of that is sending a push notification which is basically a notification that can be sent to the user at any time either like when a task is  complete or if it’s in a game and like something has been upgraded, if the app owner they want to push out news. So push notifications location in short and navigation it’s done, you can do it like through a mobile website.

But it’s done a lot better and easier through an app. Yeah then I guess the other thing is if you need like an alarm or anything, a lot of apps they might have like an alarm. If offline, if like your feature to be used, if it needs to be used offline, now a really good example of this, this can actually be done through like we haven’t done it but it could be done through a website. But one of my apps for Toronga Zoo they’ve got like a really cool app that lets you report like if you go to like South-East Asia and you see any bit of like animal cruelty or anything with like the illegal wildlife trade, you can take picture of what’s happening and send that report. But the thing is a lot of people like when they’re overseas, they won’t have access to the internet.

So if they made just a mobile website to do this, then a mobile website wouldn’t work because a lot of people don’t have internet. But what the app does is it actually lets you make the report when you’re offline and then when you’ve got internet, then you can send the report later. So, yeah I guess that’s just another way that an app can be better than a mobile website.

Victoria:               Well another way to ascertain whether or not you’re going to go down that track. On that note actually I’d like to talk a little bit about the different types of apps because I’m sure a lot of people don’t actually realize that there’s native apps obviously that’s specific to the different platforms and of course you’ve got html5 apps which are your websites. Then you’ve got hybrids which obviously are a mixture of both. How would you judge or decide which one of those three you would go to? Maybe first you can just explain each of those three to us so that our listeners can get a little bit of a feel for them.

So if they hear the names again, they would at least understand what we are talking about. Then how would you decide which type of app to choose based on the type of thing that you want to have done?

Brandon:             So basically I’ll start with a native app is an app that’s specifically designed for – we will just pretend iPhone and Android are the only players in the app market because…

Victoria:               If only.

Brandon:             Yeah. Well they’ve got, like I don’t know the exact number, 89% market share. So we can ignore the others.

Victoria:               Yes, for the time being yes.

Brandon:             Yeah exactly at the moment in about a year I’d probably saying something different. Yeah, so it’s a native app, you will be coding and creating an app specifically for iPhone or Android. Now if you develop it for iPhone, then to develop it for Android down the track, it’s almost double the effort, double the time and double the cost. So that’s a native app. That’s actually what I prefer because the benefit of that is you can specifically build and design an app according to that platform. So benefits of that is a native  app would be faster, it would be designed specifically for the platform, for example an iPhone, iPhone app is really common for users to apps to have the tab at the bottom.

So different tabs at the bottom of the screen. Whereas in an Android app, that’s not really a common thing to do. Now an html app is basically, I guess it’s probably the quickest way to write an app because like intro its writing website code which is easier to code in, it’s like app code. And I would say again it’s generally as efficient, it’s slower. Then I guess what you can do with an html app is sort of package the html into an app for Android and into an app for iPhone and deploy it as a native app.

So it’s sort of like, well you can do this with all three types and people sort of like see it. Its native app. I guess it’s probably the cheapest of all the methods because it’s easier to write website code, it’s faster. Then a hybrid app sort of like a mix between the two now. There are some different like programs and different websites that you can use to do this. It’s pretty much a mixture of native and html.

Victoria:               So it’s almost going down that hybrid route is if you wanted to create one app that worked on all platforms.

Brandon:             Yeah, yeah exactly. And you can do that with html as well. There are quite a few different tools to do it. Now in terms of the one that I would pick, it really depends on three things, the time that you’ve got, the time frame, the quality of the app that you want and your budget. Now if you’ve got the highest budget and you want the highest quality, I would definitely go with the native app. If for example you don’t have – app development is not cheap. Me personally like my company, I would say we’re probably possibly one of the cheapest reputable app developer in Australia and we still charge quite a bit.

Victoria:               What is the price of apps? Maybe you can give us and I know no one would hold you to this. But we’re talking, let’s look at a ball park because when we look nowadays for example, if we want to build a html5 app hypothetically, and you wanted to build a website, if you knew how to build a website and you knew how to use perhaps one of the platforms online where you can create an app and link it through to a URL, then for a lot of people, some people could actually do that themselves. So let’s have…

Brandon:             No.

Victoria:               Look it’s not, I’m not saying, I’m certainly not saying it’s something that the average person can do. But if you’re web savvy and you’ve got a fairly good understanding of those things, you probably can get around it with a little bit of help. But let’s look at the costs of say the native, the html5 in a ball park and perhaps hybrid, what would we be looking at?

Brandon:             Straight off of that I only really come straight like a native app. So I’m not too familiar with the cost of the other apps, the other types. With the native app, whereas with all then how long is the piece of string? That being said, I mean on average I would say I probably charge my clients roughly about $8,00 – $9,000 for an app. But it can significantly vary. Like the most I’ve charged if I can really master that for both iPhone and Android, probably be around like $50,000 – $60,000 and that’s really cheap for an app. Like if you go to like another local app development company, I know someone who has been quoted $250,000 dollars just for one app.

Victoria:               Gee it would want be making you a lot of money, wouldn’t it?

Brandon:             Yeah, you would hope so. Just till I paid that money before you know it’s that successful, it’s very ridiculous. Me personally before I started my company, the reason I started Crazy Dog Apps because I simply had app ideas I wanted to turn them into apps. And I went to a local app development company and they quoted me $70,000 for one app and I was 16 years old at that time. Obviously I didn’t have that sort of money.

Victoria:               No, it’s a lot of money, that is a lot of money. Look I think the majority of people who want to build an app would probably know that to a certain extent. I’ve got a fairly good feel for it. But it is an enormous amount of money unless as we’ve just said, it’s going to make you money and it’s fairly confident that what you’re going to produce is going to generate some revenue. And if you’re only selling your app for a dollar or $1.99, there is an enormous amount of customers that you’re going to need before you’re going to start recouping those costs.

Brandon:             Yeah definitely. And also especially over the past year or two because there is this more and more apps on the app store and Google play store. So it’s becoming increasingly popular to make your app free to download. If you make the app, pay to download like $1.29, you’re pretty much just buying an app lottery ticket to success. It’s going to be really really difficult to make any sort of money by having to pay up to download. Like if you go to the top apps on the app store or Google play store to find like roughly about 90% of them are free to download. Now you’re probably wondering how do they make money.

Victoria:               You probably pay to sign up or have access to some of the advances features I would imagine.

Brandon:             Exactly, yeah so that’s right, we have purchases from within the app either for additional functionality or to unlock new features normally at extra content. Then also a lot of them make their money through ads. My experience through making money through ads has been pretty poor. For example, I released a free version of my app making guide app. In a few days after I launched I got 700 downloads which is quite good I guess. Didn’t really do much marketing and I made about $3 of ad revenue.

Victoria:               Yeah it’s hardly worth it really. I think we as consumers are pretty savvy when it comes to that sort of thing and we are not really interested. I mean I know I’ve downloaded apps and if they’re full of ads, I actually delete them from my system. I’d rather pay the money and have, even if it is 2 or 3 dollars and not have any ads in there and I think we are comfortable doing that sort of thing now. Just going back to the different types of apps again because one of the things that I think when somebody is thinking about putting an app together, it’s about the process, it’s about how it all comes together.

Now I know you have a process of with what you’re doing. But let’s say somebody is thinking about putting an app together and they’ve come up with an area of their business that they believe has the ability to be converted into an app it would probably be advantageous to their customers and it’s not even necessarily something that you want to make money from, it’s just maybe even a way to simplify their systems in their business to do that, how do they go about putting that brief together and that outline together for you or a company like yours who’s going to produce that app.

Because obviously like web development, if you don’t have a thorough brief it’s very very easy to completely forget the whole aspects of the site and they’re just not there. At the end of it, you think wait a minute, I don’t have this or I don’t have that and then your cost just escalates because you haven’t included everything in it. How does somebody get to that point where they’ve really covered all their bases?

Brandon:             Yeah, that’s a really good question. Basically in short, I don’t mean to give my app applied for that, but I have made an app that shows you how to make an app without programming.

Victoria:               Yes I know, I’ve downloaded your app and you must be obviously as you said making money from that because was quite happy to pay for that information as I would if I was going to get fast tracked online for anything else I wanted to do.

Brandon:             Yeah, ironically it’s been my most successful app.

Victoria:               Yeah funny that.

Brandon:             So basically how would you make a brief for a developer? A lot of people just think, I’ve got an app name, I’ll outline in one sentence from app does and then the developer will know exactly what it does.

Victoria:               I get website briefs like that.

Brandon:             And you’ll probably come back to them with a thousand questions as do I. Yeah so basically I think, yeah like you don’t need to know the app name from the start. There are a few things. The main things that I guess make it really easy for us developers to give a quote is to basically just list the features of the app in bullet point. Now that does like – a lot of the time people are hesitant to like sharing their ideas, we will get into that in a few minutes. But yeah I guess just listing all the main features of the app in bullet point. It doesn’t mean too much detail; it really depends on the app.

But yeah literally in bullet point form in probably about a two paged document, list of features, that’s really pretty much the most important thing, just listing the features, how it will work. If possible it is generally good to just include like really crappy like mock ups that just show the way basically the app works, that you envision the app working. Now this obviously don’t need to be the actual mark ups that you would hope that you would hire like professional person to do that.

But yeah just to show exactly how the app will work and what the features do to basically supplement list of features. Mention if it should be a native app as you mentioned, html5 or hybrid if you want the app to be made in best possible ways, get a native app made. But then this would really really affect the cost. If you wanted it to be iPhone only or Android only or both. Then also if it will be optimized for a tablet, so a tablet like the iPad or like an Android tablet. Now in general, if it is like an iPhone app only, it’s still does work on a tablet, especially like for iPhone apps, it just won’t take up, it will take up about 90% of the screen on the iPad.

Victoria:               You can increase them though, cant you? I mean most of those apps that are designed specifically for phones, when you two times the little button down the bottom right hand corner, it will blow it up, it will be obviously pixilated. But it does actually work on a lot of apps.

Brandon:             Exactly. I don’t think you’ve updated your iPad for about a year or two now.

Victoria:               No I have. I’ve got the latest one, I don’t have it now, you’re right that’s not a feature anymore but it was.

Brandon:             Yeah, yeah at the moment for like its 91% of people in iOS7 at the moment, so for those sites like most people with iPads. At the moment they don’t even a feature to zoom in and out. They automatically, an iPhone app is optimized for iPhone only. If that’s opened on an iPad, it will automatically display at about 90% of the screen size. Yeah, so in general like with my clients I recommend them if they want an app, have it for iPhone only, not optimized for iPad because it still does work on iPad. And then…

Victoria:               Does it require extra work then if you wanted something that was both iPad and iPhone or tablet, let’s go tablet and phone, is that another whole build or is there some coding that can be done within the app to enable it?

Brandon:             In terms of the features of the app because you would have already coded and developed the features for iPhone, you don’t need to redo them. However in terms of the layout, it depends on like how good that developer is at UEx design. UEx design is basically the layout of the app where buttons are placed where they go. Now I think for an app developer to actually be good at what they do, they should be designing in most cases, not all cases but in most cases if an app is optimized for both iPad and iPhone, it should have a slightly different layout for both. Because with iPad, you should be taking advantage of the much bigger screen size. For example, you’ve got the whole, optionally you could use like a side bar, a whole completely different thing that iPhone simply doesn’t really have.

Victoria:               Yes, like the social media networks too, I mean they do design specifically for the different devices.

Brandon:             Yeah, yeah exactly, like a Facebook app. Just on that point, a lot of people, do try, at least they come to me and they come up with their mock ups and they say, I’ve made these mark ups for an app, can you make them into an app. It’s the same thing with all these like do it yourself app making tools, pay $99 and they will make your app or you design it yourself. To be straight, I think those, again I am not just trying to give my company a plug for those sort of like do it yourself tools because people are not experienced in both graphics design and UEx design. UEx design I’m really passionate about where a person should go and what they should be and like all that sort of stuff. That’s your UEx design, it’s basically making an app as simple as you can and yeah, all those do it yourself tools they don’t really, because most people just simply don’t have the experience then they end up just simply making a crappy app but most of the time I think it’s probably better not to have an app than to use one of those like do it yourself tools.

Victoria:               So you’re talking about the platforms like conduit, the app builder, Como those sorts of…

Brandon:             Yeah, snappy and like those, yeah.

Victoria:               Okay. What happens if somebody does have a bit of a knack? I mean let’s hypothetically say you’ve got a very very simple task. I will give you an example, I have a client who’s a Gym and he’s a nutritionist and every week people report in with what their weight is, what they ate for that week, what they’ve lost, it’s literally a form, that’s how simple it is. So we’ve created that into a very very simple app that we did use one of those third party platforms for and it works an absolute dream. So when we’re talking that sort of thing, where it doesn’t have to have lots of functionality, it’s really designed very specifically for a client and to do one thing, then obviously those sorts of platforms are fantastic.

Brandon:             Yeah, Now if it’s literally just a form, first of all chances are like not always Apple, their review team are really inconsistent. But I mean if it’s literally just a form, there’s a potential that Apple will actually reject the app for their rejection criteria would be, doesn’t give the user any lasting entertainment. So it’s that incredibly, they’ve done it to me with one of my clients before and I tried to have something similar.

Victoria:               Yeah, right.

Brandon:             Yeah, so if it’s really that simple, then yeah chances are like maybe one of those platforms are appropriate for you, most apps are not that simple. And also at the same time to make an app, to make a good app, there’s really like quite a few different things in terms of building it. You need the right amount of features, some like that which is literally just a form, yeah that might be good. In most cases you would need like more feature than that for an app to be useful.

Victoria:               Absolutely. Look I’m not disputing that, but in a situation like that as well, the companies out there that might want to create an app for their clients and the download actually comes from their website. So they don’t actually go through the iTunes store or the Google play store anyway. They’re not doing it for the everyday person; they’re doing it just for their clients. So if you’ve got something that you want to do that’s really going to contain your own systems, and just make your administration a lot easier than what it is now, then those sorts of platforms can be perfect particularly if you’re enabling download only from your website.

Brandon:             Yeah, I agree. I would say that is quite a small proportion of people that that would suit, that being said like in the example you gave, it’s definitely appropriate.

Victoria:               Yes. Another question just talking about and I refer, I’m assuming here specifically to native apps. Let’s say your app or you wanted your app to make use of some of the features of the phone. So let’s say the camera or whatever. Do you have to go native to enable that or can that be done with a hybrid? I’m assuming it can’t be done at all with an html5. I would imagine but you can please correct me there, but I would imagine with hybrid, you probably have some ability with that, but certainly you would have to go native to that.

Brandon:             To be honest I specifically develop for native apps and I’m too familiar with hybrid and html5 so I can’t answer that question, I’m sorry.

Victoria:               Okay, not a problem. But that’s probably something to do a bit of research on because I would imagine that you would have to be native at least to be able to utilize those features of the phone.

Brandon:             Yeah then maybe some sort of like companies that do allow it or they do sort of like provide sort of like the difference between the hybrid app itself and then they sort of like finish it off with like developing those features natively. There are probably companies that do that. I’m really not too sure.

Victoria:               Okay, I’ve got two more questions I would like to ask you before we finish today. The first one is updates. Now obviously then the systems update. The app that you build is going to be built on whatever iOS system happens to be in operation at the time. When the update is required, what sort of costs and timeframes should people allow for in getting those updates ready?

Brandon:             Now it really depends on what you’re updating. If for example Apple releases a new version of their operating system like when they released iOS8 probably in the next few weeks. Some of the time it will result in the app, like they release for example an iPhone with a new screen size which is probably what they’re going to be doing depending on how Apple will do it, but most of the time you will need to update the app. In general like not too much like extra time if it’s really involved. It costs like me personally charge about, obviously depending on the work, the app and everything, probably roughly about $1,000 to $2,000. If obviously you want to add the features like fix bugs or anything, that would obviously cost more.

And yes same with the Google play app. Another thing that, at least it annoys me, because I do develop outside the company but I also develop my own apps myself. The thing that annoys me about updating an iPhone, I could actually, with me personally actually deters me. I try to sort of like put off updating some of my apps for this very reason. If you update an app, an iOS app, an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad, app, the reviews actually reset for your app. So for example, if you get like 50 reviews for your apps, it’s really good in everything, you update it, then it will automatically reset to zero. Now it doesn’t completely reset to zero because if you go to the app and then you go to like all reviews, yeah you can see it. But when people type in your app in search results, it resets to zero from then. For fast developers it’s sort of like a deterrent, we want people to see like 50 good reviews. The minute we update our app, they just reset which, yeah I personally I like it.

Victoria:               I don’t think I’d like that. That would have to also affect your ranking enormously.

Brandon:             Yeah, we don’t really know Apple’s algorithms too much. From my experience, I think I probably still count the old reviews. They probably count the new reviews more. But I’m pretty sure they count the old ones as well from my experience.

Victoria:               It just doesn’t make it available to your prospective customers.

Brandon:             Yeah, not immediately when you search for it on the app store. Also just a few interesting facts on that note. With an iPhone app your reviews actually and your rankings, they’re segmented by countries. So for example, you might have 1,000 five star reviews in Australia, that’s really great. But if someone types your app in on the US apps store or any other app store in the world, those reviews won’t be there. And also you might be ranked really well in Australia but you might not be ranked that well in other countries as well. Google play, personally like it a lot better in that regard. The fact that you can see immediately all reviews for all versions from all countries.

Victoria:               That’s very interesting to know that because I’m sure a lot of people would have no idea about that.

Brandon:             Yeah, yeah definitely.

Victoria:               Last question I have for you today and I think this is something that a lot of people actually don’t think about when they develop anything whether its web or an app or anything that’s digital and that is the support that you should provide afterwards. Because you’re going to get people who are incredibly savvy particularly if you’ve got an app that’s got a few features to it and if they’re savvy, they will figure it out. But if they’re not only are they new to your app but they’re also new to iPhone or Android, then it’s going to be a bad experience if they can’t get to sync or they can’t get to work or whatever. What would you advise people to make sure they’ve got in place after developing an app and for how long? What sort of support is going to be to get the best results?

Brandon:             That’s a good question. As mentioned before, I think UEx design, user experience design and building apps in the simplest ways possible is absolutely essential for any app that’s not going to suck. Now if you design your app…

Victoria:               It’s not going to suck.

Brandon:             Pretty much. If you design your apps extremely well, really simple where someone like a 2-year-old person or an 80-year-old person can clearly see what a button will do before they click it, how they accomplish certain tasks, if you make it really really simple to use, then less people will be emailing you and contacting you for support. Some people when you first open an app, they have instructions on how to use it. Me personally I would never do it unless the client absolutely insists and I argued with him for about 10 hours first, I would never have like how to use this app part of like when they download the app, some apps do that, because people simply don’t read that stuff.

Now the other option is to have like a help section in an app. Again I normally don’t do that because I try to make my apps as simple as possible. Now the third thing is most apps I don’t think at least from my experience, if your app gets under like 40,000 to 50,000 downloads, you probably only have maybe about 40 or 50 people contacting you for support over the lifetime of the app, which is really not that many. So in terms of support…

Victoria:               10%.

Brandon:             I would say my numbers run them. Probably I’d take most about less than 1% of people would contact you for support at least with my apps.

Victoria:               Okay.

Brandon:             So in the end in terms of support I would really only worry about a whole bunch of people contacting you and having like a support system or something if you’ve really got like over 100,000 downloads which you need to get there to start with and that’s a very difficult task.

Victoria:               Yes I can imagine. Okay, so it depends on what you create, really doesn’t it.

Brandon:             Yeah definitely and also there are some apps which are just simply like this sort of like no need for support because they’re just so simple. Whereas other concepts are harder to understand then maybe some apps if you also got the features right, a lot of people they would be contacting you for support to basically say, oh I want this feature or the app’s not working or there are all these problems. So if you really get a developer that actually writes good code that would fix the issue of there being problems. If you get the amount of features right which is really important as well, you get less people contacting you from that.

Now what a lot of people do instead of contacting support even if there is like a support button in the app, is if they’re not happy with something, they will write a bad review and leave your comment there and that’s where your feedback is in the review in the app store or Google play store.

Victoria:               Or social media Brandon.

Brandon:             Yeah or social media.

Victoria:               That 1% that you’ve talked about, I appreciate you saying that’s all you’re going to get. You only need 1% of people into liking what you’ve done on Twitter and that could be the end of your app.

Brandon:             Yeah, yeah exactly. So in terms of that, Apple they don’t provide you anyway, so like reply to the person or anything which is quite annoying, it’s a bit pointless. Especially its sort of like known like if people aren’t happy with an app, they’re going to leave like a one star review rather than contact you. And there is a way to contact developers through the app store, but people just don’t do it or don’t know about it. Now with Google play, you can actually respond to those bad reviews which I guess is step forward in interacting with your customers that are not happy or asking them for feedback.

Victoria:               I guess that’s just because with Google, it’s a total experience. They are the social media network, they’re…